Extended Interview: Terry Gilliam On PARNASSUS, Heath Ledger, a Producer/Daughter and Film Gods

A few weeks before the U.S. opening of THE IMAGINARIUM OF DOCTOR PARNASSUS, and after already having traveled with the film to numerous festivals, conventions and debuts in other markets around the world, Terry Gilliam sat down to discuss the film's dramatic road to completion. Gilliam: It's all becoming a big blur, everything, life — the whole thing's just getting very strange. I enjoyed the Python 40th anniversary reunion at the Ziegfeld, though security and press access, I must say, was pretty draconian. Gilliam: It was a blur: in, dah dah dah, out, the whole Python zip-through town. We were doing Python and this at the same time. It was like AGGGGH! It had gotten to the point, finally got a break, and suddenly realized I never want to speak about this film again, and I've got another month. I've got to go to Japan. It's already opened in dozens of places. Gilliam: It's opened in England, it's opened in Italy, it's been in France, Spain. I've been dealing with all of that. I've been to festivals in Europe so it's been going on for probably four months now. Finally, finally it's going to come out here. Everything has been backwards on this film! I mean, to open it in Europe first in certain markets . . . but what's been interesting, it's been a huge success in Italy. Does that take some of the pressure off here? If it's already done well overseas, it doesn't need to prove itself if it were to open here first? Gilliam: But what's interesting is it's done brilliantly in Italy and OK everywhere else. Not great — OK, good. And it's because Italy approached it like a big movie, four stars, four A-list actors in a big movie. Others have approached it a bit more, like, Is it an art movie? What is it? Even though it has Heath Ledger and Johnny Depp? Gilliam: This is what is crazy! Because they're not sure, it doesn't fit into anything that they understand. What's so difficult to understand? You just sell it on those, just completely whore yourself and sell it out loud and it'll work. And they kind of did that in Italy. And what I'm trying to get people to understand is, OK, if the film was not going to perform it would have dropped considerably for the second week. I think it dropped four percent. It works. But there still even now, we sent it to a certain large distribution company with a very famous director involved and they said Oh, it's wonderful, but it's too sophisticated for our audience. We're back into the old TIME BANDITS situation where they don't understand it works from 8 to 80. It's just your attitude in life, and they can't get it. The world has gotten even more tedious than when we began! Where did the financing come from? Gilliam: Zero out of America, so basically it was a UK-Canadian co-production, with presales in France, Germany, Italy, Japan, couple of other places like that. And that's how it was put together. And how much was the total budget? Gilliam: Probably about 30 million. It was 25 when we started. We were out there in L.A. at the end of 2007 saying, 'OK, summer of 2008, DARK KNIGHT, Joker, Heath Ledger will be the Big Star In The Planet, and we'll be coming out a couple of months later.' This very complex idea they couldn't grasp. It's actually terrifying; they're frightened, the people that are running the show. Very few of them have any sense of film, or audiences I think. And I just wish the credit crunch would take a few of these places down. It's actually managed to destroy some of the small distributors, production companies and all — it's horrible. So luckily some people are at the top at the right time. Johnny is riding high still. I can't imagine now, everybody, even the smaller independent operations, they want big names in there. And there's only a few big names. And what's interesting is like, an A list isn't quite the same anymore. There's the A list, and then there's the A-Prime List, and they're really only interested in A-Prime which is about 5 people. Johnny is one of those. Gilliam: That's what I 'm meaning, he's at the right place at the right time. Even without wearing a pirate costume. Gilliam: Yeah, I think so. But it's pirates that count! I think Mad Hatter counts as well. I don't know where to start except with the awful thing that happened. I have to tell you that when I first heard the news about Heath, when it came over the car radio, my first thought was Oh shit!, and the second thought right immediately after that was Oh shit Terry! Gilliam: Once again! Worse than all the other difficulties you'd faced on films all put together, because it not only meant the film was in jeopardy, but you lost a friend. Gilliam: Yep. I don't know. You do it. You don't ever want to have deal with a thing like this again. I've never experienced anything so horrible. First thing is Heath, you don't believe he's dead. I mean it took several days for me to really believe it because it was impossible! We had just been working a couple of days before and he was full of vim and vigor, he was flying, just in great form, and suddenly he's dead? But what it really is, is that people like my daughter Amy, and Nicola and a couple of others said we're not going to let this thing die. What is so frightening in retrospect is we only signed off on the bank, the insurance, the bond four days before he died. Can you imagine what that was like? We had been shooting for a month with nothing signed off . . . I mean it happens in films all the time. In fact, it was the day before he died the last dot on the i was put. Can you imagine what the money people felt at that point? He's dead: We want our money back! Panic ensued. I wasn't aware of any of that, and I was refusing to listen to any of those problems. I was just despondent, and then Amy just was saying 'We are not going to let this film die. It's gonna go.' She was ruthless with everybody, she was just beating everybody up saying 'Stop.' And I called Johnny, it must have been the next day. The day Heath died we did nothing, we were just out lying on the floor of the office, nobody moved — this is not true — and I called Johnny to commiserate because he was close as well to Heath, and I said, 'I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do, probably go home.' And he said, 'Whatever you do, I'll be there. Whatever you want.' And I think that phone call stopped the retreat of money: Johnny Depp is interested? Oh, he's going to take over the part? I never said anything. I didn't even want to tell them that I'd called Johnny. But that was the thing. And then I went to see Heath's parents on a Saturday in L.A. That was both horrible and wonderful. And I went back to London and just talking and talking to other people. Tony Grisoni said if you want to talk, come in, throw ideas around. Everybody wanted to help in some way. In fact, when I actually decided, 'OK we were three times through the mirror, three people,' rewrote in less than a day, it was very clear: You could do that, you couldn't do that. There were certain things I thought we might be able to find a solution to and we'd march forward. There was a constant readjusting all the time, but basically there's no script changes really. There are all sorts of small things pulling it together once you do that. You make the drunk in the beginning, his face changes. You add lines like when Johnny appeared, she goes, 'Oh, I always dreamed you would look like this.' That's a line to explain that. And putting the picture of Colin Farrell in the magazine. Gilliam: And what's interesting about that is, that's better. Before it was just a happy family with a three room suite, and now it's a happy family and it's Colin Farrell in there, so that sets up [the transformation]. And almost every one of these changes improves the film. That's why I was saying Heath co-directed this movie after he died. He was telling me You can't do that, you can get away with that maybe. It was pretty seamless. If I didn't know the backstory I wouldn't have guessed the changes in actors wasn't planned from the beginning. Gilliam: I didn't know it was going to work until we got back to London and showed it. We did the first rough assembly and showed it to some people who didn't have any involvement in it. And they assumed it. They assumed it had been written that way. And we asked did you see anything wrong with it? No, everything played perfectly. There were no leading questions! And I said, well that's it, it works. It was all basically just flying on hope and trust that we could pull it off. I didn't know whether it was going to work. I didn't realize the drunk had changed when HE went through the magic mirror in the beginning. Gilliam: Really? I must admit there's other people that have said the same thing. Probably because I didn't know or recognize the actor and wouldn't have picked up on the change in his face. Gilliam: Yeah, some people miss that, others get it straight away. I mean, the guy looks completely different from the one that starts! [Laughs! ] It's so dense with imagery that you lose things. You don't notice the guy's got a different face — yet he's completely different! That's what's funny when Johnny appears. So many people think it's Heath! It took awhile to realize that's when Johnny steps in. Gilliam: And it's a trick, because Johnny's not doing any. He looks like Johnny! But what we do is we delay the moment of revelation. Because we had a double for Heath, the guy looks just like Heath, it's terrifying. And he's the one you first see when we go through the mirror. He's skipping across the things, it's him. So you're waiting, Heath is in there. It used to be quite spooky, you'd come on the set and he'd be sitting there, and you think 'Heath's here! Fuck!' It didn't make it easier for anybody! It's little things in the cutting we played with, and that helped us. It took a while to find this guy. He's rather badly credited in the film, he is credited as Tony's double. I feel a bit bad because I haven't emphasized him. [But] I don't want people to learn all the tricks too quickly in the film; I want people to just go watch the film. And the other thing is that, I keep thinking if we had been with a studio, do you think we would have introduced Heath hanging under a bridge? They'd want to reshoot it. This is what we wrote, this is what we're making, and that's it, and that's in. 'Cause I find that, even now, I find that shocking to me, the line 'Why are you fishing dead people out of the river? He's dead?' Rough stuff. But I think so many people, on the one hand we know too much; the vast majority of people don't. OK, Heath Ledger's dead, he's an actor but he's not a friend. There's no emotional entanglement for a lot of people, except for all those girls who are huge Heath fans it's rough. It's really funny, the great thing is we're here for nine months in the editing room, we're still dealing with Heath every day. He's on film. It's very weird the power of, he's dead but he's not, I'm working with him every day. It's an interesting way to grieve. I worry about everyone who might die before me — reediting them during the grieving process. Was there any thought given to doing CGI of him, a la Benjamin Button or Gollum? Gilliam: We rejected that almost immediately. It was going to be what you see there is Heath, and that was it, except for these sort of transitional moments. There were scenes I thought I could pull off with a double, in the end I rejected it 'cause it didn't work. No, the CG thing was rejected within the first week. We've got some other tricks I'm not revealing but what you see on screen is always Heath. Where did the idea come from that the replacement actors had to be friends of Heath? Gilliam: I just wanted to keep this family, it's as simple as that. I just wanted to keep it a close-knit group of people. There were people even offering to come and help, they didn't know Heath. I just, it had to be in the family somehow. I don't know why, it was my attitude. That's why the idea of getting someone to replace Heath? No, there is no one guy that can replace Heath Ledger. Three spreads the load. And then friends, I think it worked because Colin at one point had said he actually thought he was channeling Heath at one point. Heath's spirit was quite exceptional to say the least. Powerful, he just was there. His presence just never went away for a while. And that I think just helped enormously. The guys had no time to rehearse. I wasn't even sure how one would approach it. There were some weird things: The night we shot the material when the theatre is reconstructed with the checkerboard pattern and all that, and Heath was on stage and the Russians are appearing, and I said because he was behaving in a very funny way, a funny way of moving, 'Heath, I know what the fuck you're doing.' He said, 'What are you talking about?' 'You're doing Johnny Depp, aren't you?' Oh Fuck! And can you believe that helps this transition. This was not intended. It's like Jude, we made this book to try to get the money for the movie, and at the time before Heath had jumped on board I was talking to Jude about playing the part. And we did these beautiful paintings, pre-Heath paintings, and the ladder sequence Jude is on the ladder. And I mean this is crazy, but he ends up on the ladder in the film! That weird thing about Heath doing Johnny and then Johnny ends up doing Heath, there were a lot of little connections that were intriguing all the way through it. Heath was busy practicing his comic skills, too. I was pretty convinced that ultimately, there was nothing he could not do. He was just getting better, trying this, trying that, learning all the time. I thought his comic timing was perfect. And what was interesting about it was always grounded. It wasn't the character showing off in any way. It was the character again. It was funny! What directions did you give to Johnny, Jude or Colin to continue that character? Gilliam: I didn't. So they played it as they thought Heath might have played it? Gilliam: Yep. Just guessing, feeling their way. The most difficult one was Colin, and the transition to Colin was a very hard one. Because Heath is running around on stage, there's this incredible energy, and so it's the one bit we reshot because we tried it with energy and it didn't work. Because there's an interesting thing: Heath even at this point now in the film you can see he's a liar and a cheat, he's almost Mephistophelean the way he's working with Parnassus. He's a bad guy [yet] you still love him. And then you cut to Colin and he looks like a bad guy, he looks like a Victorian villain — he's got a widow's peak, beetle brows, the man has a dark, dangerous, villainous face and that was a really hard transition to pull off. And we reshot it playing it a different way, and we eventually got it because it had to be light and humorous. We then did something in the cutting which helped in the transition — we delayed the reveal to his face by cutting to the magazine first, before you see him. We played around with that quite a bit, and finally it works. But that was a harder one. Jude was easier. Jude was nice, open energy and that works. Johnny, we had Johnny for one day and three-and-a-half-hours, that's all. Because of his schedule? Or was it all you could afford? Gilliam: No, we almost didn't get him almost. It was only at the very last moment that Michael Mann's film PUBLIC ENEMIES was delayed by a week. Because he was in prep and Michael Mann was not going to let him go. He was very much controlling what Johnny could or could not do. (Control the performance to the point it's not there!) And so literally he just arrived and on the set and go! That was it, we just went and he had worked it all out, he was word perfect. He's just extraordinary. And he just found his own way of making it work. That's why I put Johnny in first position because number one, he was going to be the most difficult to get any time with, and number two I just thought if it works with the transition to Johnny and the audience goes for it, they'll follow the next two. And that's exactly how it works. Johnny's wonderful. I think he ought to make a living just doing walk-on parts, small ones, steal the film and then go home. How was it working with Amy as your producer, since you've had unfortunate experiences with producers on occasion. Gilliam: Hers was a difficult one. And you said she was ruthless? How ruthless was she with you? Gilliam: As much as she could, but that's only so much. She was in an interesting position because Bill Vince was the real producer, and she was his protege. But he was busy dying of cancer through the whole shoot. He really was not well. And so you're sitting there knowing there's going to be a death and it's going to be Bill, we'd be lucky if he doesn't die before we get through the shoot. Suddenly Heath goes and dies on us! Wait a minute! And then Bill managed to last until the last bit of film went through the camera and then two days later he died. He was in terrible shape. Anyway, so Amy's beating up Bill, pushing him, pushing me, she was just this fury, pushing, 'We're going to make this film, this won't work,' and that's what it was like, and then Bill dies and now she's on her own, dealing with this huge insurance claim which is a huge nightmare because they don't want to cough up the money, everything, so she's had to deal with things that more experienced producers probably wouldn't have had to deal with in a life of producing — all in one film. There are days I wanted to just slap her but she's my daughter! So it becomes an interesting thing: you want to go 'I've got more experience, you're just being na�ve, you don't understand.' And she goes 'You can't talk to me like that.' Or else I'll say something and she'll say, 'Why are talking to me like your daughter?' Because you are my daughter! It may be the fact that we're used to arguing and fighting, it gets us through it. It's fine. She's fantastic. I don't know where she's going to go from here because I don't know quite what you do after this kind of experience, whether you stay in it or just get out! But she's been great, she's really good with people. She works incredibly hard, very diligent, just tries to stay on top of everything. She's great, she's very opinionated, she just doesn't like all the lazy bureaucratic people; nobody seems to do their job any more, you discover more and more, they're all just floating along, all the organizations are bloated, they're full of people that aren't dedicated. And she's ruthless about this thing of being dedicated to a film. So she was quite driven through al this. Sounds like the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. Gilliam: Afraid not! That doesn't mean she's going to have a pleasant life, that's what worries me. It may mean a miserable life! Can you discuss some of the concept paintings that were done? Did you sketch them out first and then the concept artist fleshed it out? Gilliam: A bit of that. That's the way it worked. That was mine, that was the first, I just drew the wagon and that's what it ended up looking like. So it's nice to know that people listen to me occasionally! Before Dave Warren and Anastasia Masaro came on board, Dave Warren did most of these, but this was a guy named Imery Watson and it was right in the early stages and I just sat with him, OK, Jellyfish, guys hanging like that, and he's painted it up, and it's beautiful, and it's not far from what we ended up getting. That's what I find interesting looking at these — most of them came true. I'd done a version of the monastery that was completely different, it was in this thick book, and then Dave started playing with it, and he did this and I just thought 'That's fantastic,' and off we went. It's basically a model, that's the way we did it, and had two pieces in the foreground, it was just a big camera move that we faked, went flying up to this bit. Later on we had to add more mountain out there to fill it in, put the bird in, added smoke, lot of CG stuff on top of a model shoot. I loved the little touch of the monks on their floating carpets and when Mr. Nick opens the doors the winds blows them away. Gilliam: Well, it was all about that because I put them on the floating carpet because I wanted that moment of all these guys going WHOOSH when the door opens and the wind comes it. Wow! One of the great things is, my private joke is what the monks are doing because they're chanting and it sounds like OOOOMMMMM. What they're actually doing is saying OOOMMM VAYY rather than 'Oy vay' it's OMMM VAY. I decided it was a little-known branch of Tibetan Judaism! [laughs] It's like we're doing all these things just to entertain us. I'd drawn a balloon with multiple faces on it. And then Dave put on all this stuff. Actually this came from a photograph that I had and then Dave put the two things together. Dave's drawings are just beautiful. Dave is both designer and concept artist at the same time. Mr. Nick was very easy. I can't remember if it was me or Dave, I think it was Dave that came up with the bowler hat. I think I better give him full credit for that. But he certainly did the drawings. The boat because a very silly thing. It started as a gondola, in the end I sort of designed it myself with this Egyptian numis-headed boat which seemed right if you were taking someone to the Underworld, to Death. I like how at the end Tony's world is quite literally falling apart around him. Gilliam: That was just that. I mean, again it's just a photograph, it might have been the Hermitage or something like that, and we just threw it together. I love the way Parnassus just drags on this curtain: It's another world. The original one it just came on as an extension of himself and as we developed it in the latter stages we said, 'Oh, it would be more interesting if he's pulling on a theatrical curtain that becomes a real space.' In the design and the whole theatre aspect one sees MUNCHAUSEN and TIME BANDITS. I know you talked about how PARNASSUS is in some ways refers to your entire body of work, but how much of that was a conscious decision? And how much was from ideas that hadn't gotten off the ground but could here — here's my chance to do this? Gilliam: It's a bit of all of that, to be honest I can't remember. It's all there, it's just a big dustbin that I'm dragging things out of, old things, failed things. That's the way I approached it, a compendium. This one is interesting because if you go down to Rockefeller Center, the main building, you walk in there's a guy called J.M. Sert, he did all those great big paintings in there, he did a thing on the crucifixion that I stole and revamped it and turned it into this. So Sert who's in Rockefeller Center is the inspiration for that. I just steal from things! I get into ideas, I just start going through books and suddenly an image will pop up or an idea will come out of it. And then it's very hard to remember where I got it, but I just assume most of the things I do have been filched somewhere and then altered, so that hopefully you won't discover that I'm a crook! For the Imaginarium scenes you'd said you didn't want it to look like typical CG imagery, and in the Jude Law sequence for example you'd gone for a look more in the direction of MARY POPPINS. Gilliam: That was actually, it's based on Grant Wood's paintings, he does those rolling simplistic hills with simple trees on it. I think I was trying to say 'Painterly' is what we were going for. It would have to be believable, that you're actually in the space, but nothing in it is naturalistic. People don't play around with CG enough, it seems to me. They all are trapped in a form of naturalism in, if you're doing JURASSIC PARK it's a real Tyrannosaurus rex, it's all those things. I think a lot of it was my reaction to Peter Jackson's KING KONG. There's the original, there's a silly little puppet with hair going all over the place, and it's more magical and more wondrous than what Peter did. Peter's created this extraordinary world, it's totally believable but yet it isn't magical. It's a strange thing. I've never put my finger on exactly what it is, but one just seems to be naturalistic so your imagination doesn't have anywhere to go to work — whereas if you look at the original KING KONG your imagination is working all the time to overcome your disbelief. And I keep feeling that's what one wants. I'm also thinking maybe you're using the part of your brain that is the child part of your brain that wants to be able to transform things, so this little plastic horse will ride off somewhere. Can you imagine what children are doing, how they're using their imagination to bring life to things. And generally films are just so complete and naturalistic. I haven't achieved quite something as innocent as that but there's something going on there. . . . I think films are too complete, is my problem. I just want to leave space for the audience. That might just be an excuse for not getting it right! I was thinking about similarities of characters — Tony is selling kids' organs, Parnassus is selling souls — and they suffer great loss due to their limitations. Lily however seems the most clever, which isn't unusual in your films where the youngest may be brighter and more perceptive than the others. But I was talking with Lily about her character and I had a different understanding of why she walked through the door into Hell, meaning she was the fifth soul. I felt Lily's character was clever because she became the fifth soul collected and so Parnassus won the bet, which means she'd be free. Gilliam: No. The fifth soul is, because Mr. Nick wins the bet. No, he had to get five souls and she was the fifth soul. Gilliam: No, they're fighting over five souls, and Mr. Nick gets the four Russians and then he gets her, so he's won, Mr. Nick has won. Wasn't the bet that Parnassus had to deliver five souls by a certain time or else he would lose his daughter? Gilliam: No, no, no, see that's how to save his daughter. Basically, this is the complicated thing. The bet that gives Mr. Nick the daughter is not so much a bet — Parnassus gives up his immortality for mortality because he's fallen in love with her mother, and the deal is he'd be young again, he'd have extra powers, da de dah, and that the deal is if he had a child, on her 16th birthday it would become Mr. Nick's. So now we're in that position, she's about to become 16, Mr. Nick has come to claim his due and then he says 'Let me offer you, here's another chance, the first of five: whoever gets the first of five. If you get first of five souls before I get five souls,' says Mr. Nick, 'you get to save your daughter.' But Mr. Nick gets the five souls — Parnassus gets four women, and he hasn't quite won, suddenly four Russians come in . . . And they didn't count for Parnassus 'cause they were in HIS Imaginarium? Gilliam: No, but they went through the wrong thing. They didn't join the police force; they went to the babushka. And that's why Mr. Nick comes, the head pops up, 'Ha Ha, I won! I won those four!' So Lily's the fifth. And then the deal is, the argument is at this point, this is what gets convoluted: she's the prize, she's not suppose to be the fifth, and that's the argument, that's when the doubt enters in. Has he cheated? Has he lied? And Colin says he doesn't have five 'cause she's the prize. Did Lily agree with that or your version? Your version! Gilliam: Well, that's why I hired her! I was thinking she was duplicitous enough that she could figure out how to save herself. Gilliam: No, she's sacrificing herself as far as she's concerned. She just hates herself at that point: I'm gone. It's really funny, but I know a lot of people struggle with it. First of all the idea of giving up your immortality for mortality, it's a weird idea. That doesn't seem like winning, that's losing! But her character intrigues me. All she wants is normality, She wants some banal, normal existence. Instead of the gypsy life. Gilliam: Yeah, or the exotic life or the imaginary or anything. And I think that intrigues me about the character. And Parnassus of course is disappointed because he wants his daughter to be in his world, this extraordinary world of his imagination. In France they spotted the thing, they were talking about all the different references — Prospero,'The Tempest,' King Lear — and the end to them was 'Les Miserables,' where JeanValjean sees his daughter and doesn't go to her and leaves her to grow up on her own. The things that intrigued me was in France something hit me, at the end of the film because they were talking about Georges Melies, the French fantasist. At the end of the film is an homage to Melies, because Melies ended up with a little toy stall selling toys to kids in his dotage; his film career was over. So that was always a little homage to Melies, and his little toy stall was outside one of the Parisian train stations, and I found out what the station was: Montparnasse. MOUNT PARNASSUS train station! How is this possible? I didn't know this! And then there's another one: Heath as the Joker, the last image of the Joker [in DARK KNIGHT] is a hanged man hanging upside down by his feet. The tarot card of the hanging man that Parnassus has is a man hanging upside down by his feet! That keeps happening on this film. I started taking notes at one point because every few days something else would click. And I was like Who's making this fucking film? There are forces here that we do not understand. The film makes itself. Gilliam: Yep. I believe in the film gods, who, whatever it is. And I discovered even another connection: Hunter Thompson, when he lived in San Francisco, lived on PARNASSUS STREET! It's like circles closing in! You go crazy after a while. It goes on. So this is one more under the bridge, this film. We'll see if we can get Quixote up and running. With Robert Duvall as Quixote? Gilliam: Yep. He's game, I'm game. We just gotta get some money. Will you be back in Spain? Gilliam: Yeah, Spain is too much central to this. I started looking at other [cheaper] places and they just don't do the job. I wanted to start shooting in the spring but we don't have everything together yet and I don't see how we can start. And then you don't want to shoot in the middle of summer in Spain, it's just too hot. It's bad enough doing prep in that. So I can't see it coming before the autumn, which is very frustrating because we should be further along. But it's for a variety of reasons it's just been taking longer. But Duvall is really excited about it, and I'm really excited about him. I think he would be fantastic. Very different. Different for himself as well — can't play Gus any more! LONESOME DOVE is bye bye! For Related Articles on THE IMAGINARIUM OF DOCTOR PARNASSUS by David Morgan: "Resurrecting Heath Ledger's Final Film" — Interviews with Terry Gilliam, Amy Gilliam, Nicola Pecorini and Anastasia Masaro for CBSNews.com (12/21/09) Cinematographer Nicola Pecorini — Extended Interview Production Designer Anastasia Masaro — Extended Interview Designing the "Imaginarium" — Photo essay of concept paintings by Gilliam, Dave Warren and Imery Watson, and behind-the-scenes photos, for CBSNews.com (12/21/09) copyright 2009, 2010 by David Morgan All rights reserved. david@wideanglecloseup.com